Guntards.net

treelogger · 2010-02-08 10:21:37

For a change, let's discuss a technical question related to guns: What advantage do very light (35-40 grain) varmint bullets in .223 caliber have over heavier bullets?

If I find some spare time this spring (big if!), I'll build up my first .223 caliber AR rifle (I've had OLL lowers since the early days of the OLL revolution, before even the group buys, but only had time to build up one AR-style rifle, a .22LR carbine for use by my son, with a very good Tactical Solutions upper).

The first rifle is going to be long-barrel, flat-top (with optics, no open sights), wood stocked (rifle stock, grip, and hand guards all in Walnut), stainless barrel, no flash hider. Since this one won't be used tactically, it will have a bullet button (of even a permanently fixed magazine and top-loading, although these days that's no longer necessary, as the bullet button is widely known to be an acceptable alternative). The idea is to build a "hunting rifle" which happens to be pistol-gripped and semi-auto.

Most of the time, it will be used on the range, for plinking at 100 and 200 yards. So it needs to be accurate. Occasionally, it will have to do actual hunting duty: It's going to also be the coyote rifle; and occasionally it might get pressed into service for depredation of small blacktail deer (I know that .223 is to small for hunting in good style, but our blacktails are pretty small, mostly under 100 lbs).

After reading up on everything, it seems that for most purposes, the right answer is heavier bullets (M855 at 62 grains, and target shooting bullets at 69 to 77 grains). Which would go with a barrel of about 1:8. This allows for inexpensive plinking with M855 loads, and precision shooting with expensive loads (Black Hills, Hornady, or handloads).

The one thing this barrel can't do is to shoot the extremely light varmint bullets. Which brings up a question: Why do people actually use varmint bullets? I would think that a Coyote or groundhog that gets hit with a good-quality (expanding soft-nose) 62 or 69 grain bullet is going to be highly dead. What is the advantage to the very light 35 and 40 grain varmint bullets?

One theory: They expand much faster, and thereby dump more of their energy in the small body of a coyote or groundhog. Or maybe they fragment so much that there is no exit wound (in particular not a massive exit crater), thereby preserving the fur (but then, I don't intend to shoot animals for the fur). If I find that there really is no need for varmint bullets, then my plan is sound; otherwise I might need both a varmint version and a target shooting version.

Snilloc Sabanrab · 2010-02-09 07:47:48

treelogger wrote:
One theory: They expand much faster, and thereby dump more of their energy in the small body of a coyote or groundhog. Or maybe they fragment so much that there is no exit wound (in particular not a massive exit crater), thereby preserving the fur (but then, I don't intend to shoot animals for the fur).

The lack of exit wounds with the lighter bullets is important if you need to shoot coyotes or groundhogs in a crowded area and are worried about overpenetrating bullets hitting a bystander. Gotta be prepared for those groundhog hostage situations, after all.

(Sorry, I saw 'Snakes on a Plane' last night and was realizing that Samuel L. Jackson really could have used loads that would be powerful enough to kill a snake but not enough to overpenetrate. I suppose Glasers or Magsafes would have been good for that.)

-David
Minneapolis, MN

treelogger · 2010-02-09 09:30:24

Well, I can see a coyote holding a groundhog hostage. In this case, which of the two do you shoot? Answer: Both! That's what double rifles were invented for.

While this answer is another (feeble) attempt at humor, the following is actually true: Serious skeet shooters use double-barreled shotguns, with two different chokes: One set up for the near bird, one for the far bird. Depending on the presentation of the birds, they pick the correct trigger. I find that skill amazing.

bwiese · 2010-02-10 12:38:06

Tree....

Varmint bullets are designed for both accuracy and terminal-damage mitigation - what if you wanna save the pelt for your coonskin cap? :-)

What many folks don't understand is that common hunting bullets are not necessarily that accurate, even when the gun + shooter + powder measure/crimping all do their parts.... there's just too much round-to-round variability in composition. And when shooting small varmints at long distances it's nice to have some accuracy. 3 MOA (3" @ ~100yds) is half-a-gopher.

An related example of this is the mil's 62gr M855 round using the SS109 bullet - it has that steel penetrator core. The steel penetrator core varies slighty in position/angle during manufacture. You'll just never get this bullet [regardless of case crimp and powder measure consistency] to perform (~2.5 - 3 MOA, even from a good barrel) as well as the identical bullet without that special core. By contrast, I've seen startlingly excellent 0.65 MOA groups from ammo made from good ol' mil 55gr FMJ bullets (even milsurp pulls if undamaged): regular FMJ bullets from a premium mfgr are quite consistent.

treelooger wrote:
Serious skeet shooters use double-barreled shotguns, with two different chokes: One set up
for the near bird, one for the far bird. Depending on the presentation of the birds, they pick
the correct trigger. I find that skill amazing.

My 26" Ruger Red Label O/U shotgun has similar configuration. But it doesn't have two triggers, just a barrel selector. Nevertheless the secondary (non-default-after-loading) barrel has a 'wider' choke - in case you miss on the first shot!

While I love this gun its angles are wrong for my shoulder and I need to get it tweaked for my arms/shoulder.

Regards,
Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

treelogger · 2010-02-10 15:32:29

Thank you for the explanation. It seems to come down to this: varmint bullets can be accurate, and heavy bullets can be just as accurate (if you stick to good-quality bullets, which is pretty much guaranteed if you order from Hornady or Black Hills). And the critter is going to be just as dead with a 35gr as with a 69gr hole in him, so I can stick to a 1:8 bullet and have the rifle do double duty.

Now, if I wanted something extremely flat-shooting (for killing groundhogs at 300-400 yards, in the style of the great Dr. Lunde), then a heavy bullet is probably not ideal. But for that, a really accurate (bolt-action?) rifle in .204 Ruger would probably be better (and some serious shooting skills to go with it). I'm going to be using the rifle at maybe 50 yard ranges.

No, I'm not interested in coon-skin caps. I'm interested in terminating the life of the worthless coon that got into our tomato garden last year (by chewing through the chicken wire). Davy Crockett attire doesn't go along with my self-image as a progressive liberal cultured urbanite (who lives in the sticks). Instead, I usually wear baseball caps with the logo of chainsaw companies (Stihl, Dolmar), or gun makers (Ruger, S&W). Strangely, I own a NRA-ILA baseball cap. I inherited it (together with a big Ford truck, and a box of random tools and gun parts) from one of our neighbors, who was a big-time gunnie. I've kept the cap out of respect for our deceased neighbor, but won't wear it, because it would be morally wrong to pretend that I support the NRA-ILA.

OK, all joking and political vitriol aside: I see the value of light bullets for quick kills with minimal damage, but that's not relevant to me.

Guntards.net

#1 2010-02-08 10:21:37

Why varmint bullets?

#2 2010-02-09 07:47:48

Re: Why varmint bullets?

treelogger wrote:

#3 2010-02-09 09:30:24

Re: Why varmint bullets?

#4 2010-02-10 12:38:06

Re: Why varmint bullets?

treelooger wrote:

#5 2010-02-10 15:32:29

Re: Why varmint bullets?

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